ken_ichijouji: (omgyaywtf // kirk/bones)


1) They've been on the five year mission already since the Birthday series.
2) Christine Chapel being on the Enterprise. (On behalf of her and Majel, fuck you JJ and company. Christine Chapel would NEVER.)
3) Part of Water Park takes place after STID and Pike is still alive and awesome, and before anyone asks, killing Pike is absolutely 100% not a part of my plans. I mean eventual old age or whatever, but I'm not going to murder him to give Jim angst. *cough*
4 Jim found the Botany Bay, remembered the Khan shit from the mindmeld with Spock Prime in the first film, and blew it up. Starfleet sanctioned it. So no Khan is possible in this verse.

Things Dommi Liked about the Film: the acting and visuals. The costumes were pretty neat too, but IDK how I feel about them being in all gray all the time. Like, I dunno, I appreciate that they all had multiple uniforms for multiple purposes because that's how it actually works in the military, but I don't feel like what they came up with actually fits too well with Trek. My OTP is alive and going strong. My secondary ship is also alive and going strong. There was a throwaway line about Chekov "shadowing Scotty" that made me happy from a Scokov perspective.

Things Dommi Did Not Like About the Film: Okay, ignoring how HUGELY PROBLEMATIC IT IS to have a white Brit sub in for a character who should be Desi (because gee colonialism much?), how fucking BORING was it that he turned out to be Khan? It literally had no real impact on the film. He could have just been Harrison the whole time, and it wouldn't have mattered at all. It legit does not make any difference ultimately who he was. And also, I'm not Khan's biggest fan, but his writing was off. Khan is a grand chessmaster who also earns Kirk's respect in spite of his villainy. He's not an underhanded thug who gets used by other people. Yeah, okay, Admiral Marcus was the real villain or whatever, but if you're going to use Khan, he probably should be the Big Bad.

Actually, while I'm on the subject, it's pretty clear the writers do not Get Jim, Bones, or Spock at this point, and they just have no clue what to do with Uhura (relegated to just a girlfriend for the most part with two moments of awesome), Sulu (got one moment of badass but spent the whole film sitting down), Chekov (in maybe fourteen minutes of the movie), or Scotty (not in half the film and primarily comic relief, although I did appreciate his "fuck this, I'm out" when he tried to warn Jim about the torpedoes. If any of them were going to do that, it was going to be Scotty, and I really loved that he stood up for what's right.) But they really, really resorted Jim to being a bad fanfic character for 60% of the film. I honestly have no idea how anyone could possibly be happy with Spock because he was a pissy bitch for most of the film (and fucking INSUBORDINATE TO PIKE, which Spock would NEVER. Sassy, yes; insubordinate? No. Fuck no). I HATED the reason for the meld with Pike; Spock wouldn't "research", he'd do it to calm him down and comfort him so he didn't die "alone." And they don't have any idea what to do with Bones except give him one-liners, although I suppose I should be grateful they actually let him a) be a doctor at all and b) that he was ultimately the one who saved Jim. (I'm tempted to write a fic where Jim gets his ass lovingly reamed for thanking Spock and not Bones, but meh we'll see if I still want it in a couple of days.) Really of the three, they did the best with Bones even though they haven't gotten the memo that a) Bones should also be a lead and b) a lot of people consistently say Karl does the best job out of the seven of them. (And Karl did not disappoint, and Christ people will not shut the fuck up about Cumberbatch, but Pine absolutely, utterly carried this film. There are like five scenes that shouldn't work but only do because of his acting. It's pissing me off that the reviews are ignoring Pine and Karl for Cumberbatch, it really, really is.)

And I've seen it twice now and after a second viewing, that was some God damn phoned in directing. Everything was just rushed, rushed, rushed, like JJ couldn't wait to just get it over with. The things that should have been drawn out and held onto, weren't. The first time I watched it, I couldn't even tell what was happening in the scene where Kirk and Khan fly through the debris field to get on the Vengeance. The fight scenes were chaotic to the point that I kept losing the good guys. And why was the film even in 3d at all? The only time it worked was with the energy contrails of the ships going to warp. The rest of it is pointless and doesn't enhance the film at all. He shouldn't have even bothered with it like fucking Nolan didn't for The Dark Knight Rises. (I saw the IMAX 3D and I saw regular 3D. I will likely see the film again at some point, but IDK if I'm going to wait until it's at the dollar theater or what.)

The thing that absolutely makes me the least happy is the plot. Because seriously, they had all of this time to come up with something, and they decided to do a remake with Kirk kicking it instead of Spock. I cannot even with that decision, because I seriously can just imagine them high-fiving each other like they're some big geniuses for this decision. I really cannot even with that. A review I read said the movie is excellent until the Khan reveal, where it falls apart, and it was absolutely right. It's unnecessary, things don't make sense, they got too caught up in "clever" call backs...and really, what is the damn point of an alternate timeline where you've gone on and on about how anything can happen when you're just going to retell the same stories?

And I'm sorry, but the Khan bellow needed to stay the fuck out of the film. Three decades has turned it into something that's impossible to take seriously, and Quinto just did not act well enough on it to change that. They needed to just let that go, because it completely ruins the mood of the scene. (Not hating on Zach, I think maybe they just chose the wrong take. But yeah, nope. Not good.)

I didn't hate Carol the way I do in WoK, and I am very very glad they didn't go there with Jim/Carol. The Bones/Carol didn't bug me, and honestly, considering one of the first things Carol said to Jim was "so you fucked my friend, never called, never wrote, and now you don't even remember her" I actually can't buy it happening in the Reboot. But who knows, maybe there was more of them and it's in the deleted scenes? I just...whatever.

There are things to love about this movie, but the literal only reason why it's remotely fun to watch is because of the cast. It's not the writing, and it's not the directing. I liked the character interactions, so I can appreciate it on that level, but I'm not in love with it like I was 09. It's not nearly as good, which is weird because with a trilogy, isn't usually the second film the best?

But we'll see. I'm assuming we'll get another one in 2016 for the 50th Anniversary of Trek. Hopefully we'll get new writers and a director who actually gives a damn this time.

Date: 2013-05-18 10:36 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] hora-tio.livejournal.com
Everything you said..perfect use of words to express my mixed feelings about Into Darkness.

One can only hope that the final movie will rectify these matters.

Date: 2013-05-19 05:07 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] ken-ichijouji.livejournal.com
I am sincerely hoping they get better writers and a director who actually likes Trek. This was just SO phoned in on those levels.

Date: 2013-05-18 10:54 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] thistlerose.livejournal.com
Spot on review. I was mildly impressed for about the first third, thinking I might end up liking this. Then it all fell apart. At one point - I forget when - I actually threw my hands in the air in disgust. I totally agree with you on the laziness of the writing. And what makes it even more annoying is, they did the WoK plot line with XI! Nero was basically a rebooted Khan, and while he never did much for me as a villain, he was a little more interesting than the "real" Khan.

It also seemed to me that the pacing was tremendously off. There were almost no quiet moments, and I think the relationships in the film suffered as a result. I don't think there was a single instance where Kirk and Spock just talked, the way they did all the time on TOS. They were always running or shouting or shooting at things, and as a result, Spock's grief at Kirk's death seemed ... unearned to me. Uhura and Scotty's quiet reaction was actually more touching.
(deleted comment)

Date: 2013-05-19 05:17 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] ken-ichijouji.livejournal.com
Both times everyone in my theater was just like ... I think they were trying not to laugh. It just absolutely doesn't work as a serious thing anymore.

Date: 2013-05-19 05:15 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] ken-ichijouji.livejournal.com
The only quiet moment in the entire film is when Bones opens the body bag, tears up, and sits the fuck down to grieve. And it's rushed through and not nearly long enough. That is literally the only quiet moment in the whole film, because Scotty and Uhura's reaction to Jim's death is shot in the damn foot by the weak as shit Khan bellow. And yes, I absolutely agree that Spock's tears over Jim are unearned. They are at each other's throats the entire film until that scene. It's such an obvious and manipulative ploy to get tears out of the audience (and it's so obvious Jim isn't going to stay dead) that I just sat there with a "fucking really?" look on my face. And I don't think I heard anyone crying in my theater either time.

And you're totally right, XI is essentially WoK with an angry Romulan. I'm also not Nero's biggest fan, but Christ. Why retread the same shit multiple times? Why why why?

The pacing is off because JJ obviously did not give a fuck about directing this film.

Like legit, the more I think about this film, the angrier I become because of the wasted opportunities. They had SO MUCH TIME to make something fucking amazing and perfect, and they decided to remake a film that would never be lived up to. I want new writers and a new director. I'm done with these people.

Date: 2013-05-19 03:13 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] infiniterider.livejournal.com
The fact that they telegraphed KHAN'S BLOOD IS MAGIC from scene 2 kind of made Jim's death so cheap that I don't know how anyone could take it seriously. And JUST when I started to get a little sad because I started to think about the original movie, and the fact that I love these characters even if I don't like them in this movie at all, suddenly INTERNET MEME!

Wow.

Date: 2013-05-19 03:01 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] infiniterider.livejournal.com
"Spock's grief at Kirk's death seemed ... unearned to me. Uhura and Scotty's quiet reaction was actually more touching."

Completely agree, by the time he died, I was just like "oh, whatever, he's gonna get Khan's blood and be ok, calm down, Spock." I appreciated Uhura's reaction more.

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Date: 2013-05-19 05:30 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] ken-ichijouji.livejournal.com
Yeah basically, the first time I came out of the film, I was pleased for the most part. But then I watched it again the next day and was like "actually wait this totally doesn't make sense or work." The acting is literally the only saving grace of the film. I think i was so pleased by Jim/Bones being alive, Uhura and Jim being bros, and Scotty getting an actual plot point that I just didn't pay enough attention the first time. The movie literally only works at all because the actors rose above the shit script and lackluster directing. That's it.

Date: 2013-05-19 02:22 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] ivycross.livejournal.com
Yes to pretty much all this. The only thing I really don't agree on was Pines acting. I felt that him and Quinto weren't trying. Thye just seemed wooden, but that was me.
And what the heel with the boring ass Khan. It was bad enough that whitewashed him, but then made him a dull mambypamby villain.

Don't get me started on the Khan scream.

Date: 2013-05-19 05:51 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] ken-ichijouji.livejournal.com
I will agree that Quinto is wooden/not great, but the writing for Spock is just so fucking terrible I think he worked with what he had. I'm just seriously so mad that I give Spock more good characteristics and depth in my fanfic I write for FREE than the writers who got paid millions for this script could be bothered with. But Pine's acting is legit the only reason why Jim is bearable as a character in the first 60% of the film. It's the only reason why he's sympathetic when he loses his command, it's the only reason why anything involving Jim works. If it wasn't for Pine, Jim would be atrocious, unbearable, and impossible to root for. I like Jim because of Pine in this film, and how much he cares about characters like Uhura, Scotty, and Bones, and for no other reason. There's nothing to like about him except Pine's performance.

Khan is just shittily written, whitewashed, and sucks. I could probably write a better Khan, and I legit can't stand him. The writers just do not get him, just like they do not get Kirk or Spock, or understand that Bones is more than just sarcasm. There's no depth to him, and the movie just is wrecked when you find out who he is.

My kingdom for an alternate verison of Kirk's death with no Khan scene. My entire fucking kingdom.

Date: 2013-05-19 03:22 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] weepingnaiad.livejournal.com
Hey, bb. Here's an alternate version of that scene: Like Antimony

And you know that we agree on pretty much everything.

I think a lot of fans were just so desperate for another movie that they missed all the holes you could drive the Death Star through. :P

Date: 2013-05-19 04:38 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] brightnova.livejournal.com
Yes loved this review. You articulated quite a few things i could not. Thank you.

Val / Cookie

Date: 2013-05-19 05:53 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] ken-ichijouji.livejournal.com
I'm glad! <33333 Thanks for reading it!

Date: 2013-05-19 02:23 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] nevadafighter.livejournal.com
ext_279: (Default)
Omg THANK you for this review. I was starting to feel like maybe the whole rest of the fandom didnt see the same lazy ass movie i did. I can't even go for a second viewing tbh, because I couldn't get past Pike's death. And then they lamely chopped STII up, sprinkled in the rest of the movie series, and said YAY MOVIE TEIMS! NOW FEAT WHINEY BADFIC COMMAND CREW!!!

Lol and I actually guffawed at "khaaan" - loudly. Almost made up for every other STUPID out of character thing about the movie...

Date: 2013-05-23 06:44 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] ken-ichijouji.livejournal.com
No basically what I've personally been seeing is people saying that they love it in spite of its flaws, but freely admitting how flawed it is. Because it is very very flawed. I don't think anyone likes it as much as 09, but it really just...it's not a good movie. It's amusing, and parts of it are fantastic, but over all it's not a good film.

The Khan yell is so fucking stupid. They should have known better. It RUINS the scene. Like I said, I don't blame Quinto. I blame the writers and the editor for picking that take.

Date: 2013-05-19 02:47 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] infiniterider.livejournal.com
"what is the damn point of an alternate timeline where you've gone on and on about how anything can happen when you're just going to retell the same stories?"

This is EXACTLY what I thought! And since Khan actually didn't act like Khan, and didn't have Khan's motivations, and Khan doesn't have the same intelligence (just more experience) and Khan is now some kind of magic vampire guy whose blood makes people (AND TRIBBLES THAT ARE NOTHING LIKE HUMANS) come to life. So, yeah. They could have just made him a different guy. And what version of Khan would allow himself to be enslaved because someone was holding his family hostage? You're telling me, Mr. Superior Strength and Intellect can't figure a way out of that?

I don't know, I think the thing that bothers me the most about this movie is that the only people who acted like who they were named after are Bones, Scotty and Pike. Bones was reduced to comic relief aboard the ship. They killed Pike after Spock did something he would never do, (and then you were SPOT ON about his reasons being really stomach turning -I thought he was getting Pike's katra, because he's such a dear friend that he would do that for him. That's actually the only reason I knew they were killing Pike from his SHOULDER wound). Scotty was reduced to comic relief outside the ship. And to top it all off, they kicked him off the ship after showing Jim do something HE would never do - ignore his chief engineer regarding something that could possibly endanger the ship and crew. that is something Jim Kirk would NEVER do. WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?

If I could convince myself that this was a second mirror universe where everyone is an idiot, except for the few people stuck there from our universe, maybe I could watch it again...

Date: 2013-05-23 06:53 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] ken-ichijouji.livejournal.com
I am by far not a fan of Khan, but this was not Khan. This was a terrorist slapped with Khan's name for the sake of a cheap "reveal" to get people in theater seats. He doesn't act like Khan, and I have a hard time with Nero somehow turning Khan into a posh white Brit. Especially since Nero happened like 300 YEARS AFTER KHAN FLED EARTH.

Bones is the most in character out of the trifecta, but he's reduced to a caricature, so that's damning with faint praise. Scotty was probably the best written out of all of them, because he was the only one allowed to have any real depth with his decision to resign. (Everyone is all happy about Uhura but I question if they watched the same film I did. She legit only exists in the film to be an angry girlfriend except when she speaks Klingon and stuns Khan.) And yes, I agree, Jim would never ignore Scotty for the sake of vengeance. He'd ignore lots of shit for vengeance and did sometimes in TOS, but he wouldn't tell Scotty to resign like he did.

It's just such a hugely bad script. It's so bad. SOOOOOOO bad.

Date: 2013-05-23 05:08 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] infiniterider.livejournal.com
I agree, someone mentioned to me that she didn't like how Uhura seemed to take Bones' place as part or the Big Three, but I just saw her a reduced to "girlfriend" status (as opposed to having any intrinsic value of her own, just like Bones was reduced to providing laughs while poor Scotty was unavailable.

True, Jim will ignore a lot of things when it comes to revenge, but the safety of his crew has never been among them. He tried to save the man who ordered the death of his SON. No way is he going to ignore sound advice and risk killing 800 people for any reason.

I liked the original Khan as a villain - i thought he was a worthy adversary for Jim. It just seemed like everything got reduced to stupidity here. Now Khan is not a proud conqueror, he's a weepy pawn who just wants his family back. I also disliked the fact that the movie wanted to show Jim learning how to me a dedicated captain through Khan's example, or tried to imply that Khan is just a dedicated leader like Jim is. He'd do anything for his family? oh, ok. It's like we're supposrd to believe Jim could sympathize with a terrorist because he does crazy things for love. OK.

no.

Date: 2013-05-19 03:26 pm (UTC)From: [identity profile] weepingnaiad.livejournal.com
You know the saddest thing, bb? You've seen it twice and I will definitely be seeing it a second time. These people (the writers and directors, not the actors) don't deserve my money, tbh. They so obviously do not give a damn about these characters about this universe and they utterly ruined the opportunity to create something brilliant. *sigh*

I hate being taken for granted.

Date: 2013-05-23 06:47 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] ken-ichijouji.livejournal.com
Yeah I just...it's SO lazy and horrible. It's pathetic how little thought they put into this. It's insulting to us fans. I want new writers and a new director. This shit is fucking terrible and unforgivable.

Date: 2013-05-22 02:25 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] matthew gough (from livejournal.com)
I just wanted to say that at the point in the movie where Kirk mentions Chekov shadowing Scotty. I sort of turned to my friend and said "haha Water Slide verse." Which I had introduced her to before the new movie and am glad that I did. Because sadly the water park verse would have made a better sequel. Just minus the slash because sadly that would never make it onto the big screen. No mater how much I wish it. But whatever.

Oh and then after the movie when Ash and I were joking about Scotty and Chekov our other friends that we went with asked what we were going on about. And I had to tell them and oie it is embarrassing to tell straight guys about your ships let me tell you! But we had a laugh and they agreed that what I was talking about did kind of sound better than the movie. Minus the man on man action part, for them anyway.

So kudos to you for writing the Water Park verse. Which I'm going to go reread and pretend that in some alternate, alternate timeline universe, is what is actually happening to those boys. haha!

Date: 2013-05-23 06:56 am (UTC)From: [identity profile] ken-ichijouji.livejournal.com
I am glad I am not the only one! Scokov is one of those things that make a lot of sense when you think about it, but it's also one of those things you'd never immediately think of upon first watch of these films! (Though they drink together a few times in TOS.)

And yeah, they'd never have the balls to put Jim and Bones together on the big screen. The old school Trekkies would be too upset, which whatever.

It's such a huge complement that you like my fic better than the actual movie! Thank you so much for saying so, I really appreciate it! Don't be a stranger! <333333333

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